@Gargron can I be honest? Facebook really REALLY needs to die, giving them a lifeline they'll most definitely abuse is a bad idea for everyone but them. They're already failing and we've got something good here, maybe we don't need them at all and should focus on the good we do for people that doesn't net huge profit and defederate them out?

@Gargron probably means users don't have to quit or join other networks' to be able to speak with others who aren't on FB, and they can monetize others' content on their platform, and maybe gain new users joining their platform in the hope of enjoying federation while enjoying "best of the services"

@Gargron This seems incredibly naive. All they see is that ActivityPub can be weaponized against us. They're here to exploit us and destroy the Fediverse because monopoly is what pays.

@Gargron But there's also danger, as @jwildeboer showed in https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/110004600622671486 : Those big companies might try to spoil the protocol/mechanics to implement "cool features", which might cause preassure and bad feelings & anger due to compatibility issues.

@Gargron sounds like they're entering the arena- taking bets on how long it takes them to innoculate folks against federated concepts

@Gargron you created Mastodon with the health of the system being prioritized over just yourself controlling it. for that i think you deserve an economics prize for innovation. you seem to be the only one left who has started a company with long-term stability of the system as your goal, and not just short-term "growth" for your own savings account.

for all of this i thank you. have an amazing day/night!

@Gargron I agree with this assessment, but this is also a huge threat to fedi. After all, same things could have been said about XMPP back in the day when Google Talk and Facebook Messenger both used it!

We *have to* learn that lesson and proceed with an abundance of caution. Meta would not be doing this if they didn't think they can somehow "own" and control the resulting ecosystem in some critically important way.

@Gargron no way, man.

@Gargron

EMBRACE!!!!!! <----- You are here
EXTEND!!!!!
EXTINGUISH!!!!

@Gargron I'm confident you're familiar with the historical threat that would present, and hopefully you share the analysis that corporate actors will invest in the most adverse possible interpretation of and engagement with what we've created here. We can only expect them to extract as much and return as little benefit as possible, in force and at scale. Full preparation for its corrosion is impossible.

@Gargron They might just be trying to avoid anti-monopolistic legislation and... embrace, enhace and extinguish.

@Gargron
Corporate greed is incessant. Meta has zero interest in ActivityPub except how it might help drive up their stock price.

My gut says to the degree that the nature of ActivityPub will not allow Meta (and other rich capitalist companies) to do what they want, they will then try to control it and change its very nature at some point and in some way we likely, today, think cannot be done and therefore will only learn about when it's too late.

@Gargron
For once, they can't buy it, so they at least want to be part of it. I can't dismiss the fear that they'll somehow manage to poison the well.

@Gargron @charles_ex

@Gargron mh do you know anything about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend%2C_and_extinguish ?

We don't want anything from the Silicon Valley here, please

@Gargron @elicitizen but they will monetize any way they can regardless of the source. They let opaque click bait scammers and info-operators takeover the platform just to drive engagement a little.

@Gargron
Yeah, great! We have seen this with other protocols in the past, e.g. #xmpp.
Nearly everyone uses xmpp nowadays.

@gargron
Eigentlich ist das ja ne Spezialität von Microsoft, aber auch hier würde ich es "Umarmung des Todes" nennen.

@Gargron
Meta is not the ally you seem to think they are; not even a beneficial collaborator. They are an apex predator and consume the concept of the Fediverse if they can, or will chew it up and spit out the remains if they can’t.

@Gargron I don't entirely trust Meta but I do remember that Zuckerberg said he'd support open XMMP chat, until he was royally stuffed by Google.